Ben ([info]bassist) wrote,
@ 2007-08-20 09:47:00
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Current mood: contemplative

Philosophically Speaking...
I have questions that demand answers:

Do you believe in God? Why or Why not?

Do you believe in free will? Why or Why not?


I know it's kind of odd to find these questions here, but I don't have time for an explanation now. I will, however, in my next post.


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You have questions? I have some vague notions for you.
[info]wholesomedick
2007-08-20 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Do you believe in God? Why or Why not?
Not really. Technically speaking, I'm an Atheist in that I don't believe in God, at the same time I see the usefulness of the concept of God. But I try to be careful when I think that way. This is an issue I still deal with in my second and third steps in EA. Here are some quotes from Carl Sagan that I "meditate" on.
In its encounter with Nature, science invariably elicits a sense of reverence and awe. The very act of understanding is a celebration of joining, merging, even if on a very modest scale, with the magnificence of the Cosmos. And the cumulative worldwide buildup of knowledge over time converts science into something only a little short of a transgenerational meta-mind.

"Spirit" comes from the Latin word "to breathe." What we breathe is air,
which is certainly matter, however thin. Despite usage to the contrary, there is no necessary implication in the word "spiritual" that we are talking of anything other than matter (including the matter of which the brain is made), or anything outside the realm of science. On occasions, I will feel free to use the word. Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passages of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.

...

Except for hydrogen, all the atoms that make each of us up -- the iron in our blood, the calcium in our bones, the carbon in our brains -- were manufactured in red giant stars thousands of light-years away in space and billions of years ago in time. We are, as I like to say, starstuff.
I am also strongly in favor of the position advocated by Saint Augustine that faith must be carefully examined or you are at risk of your faith devolving in to naïve supernaturalism and superstition. Both faith and reason are prone to error, both are tools humans use to find truth, and both require careful analysis and thoughtfulness.

That's all I've got on the God question.

Do you believe in free will? Why or Why not?

It is tempting to think of existence as a network of input and output devices, and that with the right kind of arithmetic and knowledge you could predict human behavior. This is probably more of a cop-out than the last question, but I don't know if "free will" is a very useful concept.

What do we have absolute control over? I don't even have absolute control over when I poop, and I am reminded of it whenever I think of Casa Bonita. So of course the decisions I make are strongly influenced by my environment, history, circumstances. But, of course, it's a matter of degree. So, it might be more useful to see how my "will" can be compromised by outside influences and what I can do about it.

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[info]snolliebollie
2007-08-20 06:27 pm UTC (link)
I'd love to answer these questions but it's hard for me in english.. it'll probably sound like I'm a four year old :(

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[info]bassist
2007-08-20 11:39 pm UTC (link)
Well, you could always try answering in your native language and running it through Google's translations stuff... Otherwise, a four year old answer is perfectly acceptable.

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[info]wholesomedick
2007-08-21 08:23 pm UTC (link)
I MAY NOT HAVE A VAGINA, BUT YOU CAN STILL REPLY TO ME.

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THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE AND HATE IS INDIFFERENCE
[info]wholesomedick
2007-08-22 09:59 pm UTC (link)
:(

I'm sure you're very busy and don't have time for LJ, but we miss you... man... we miss you.

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[info]wolvzor
2007-08-20 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Here's some quickie answers from me:

Do you believe in God? Why or Why not?
I'm a baptized Catholic, never confirmed, who used to be an atheist but is now an agnostic. I can't say for sure that God exists, or even if he/she/it goes by that name. There might be one, or there might be many. In some ways, I believe that if something truly exists out there that is a deity, it's beyond my comprehension to understand or recognize any symbols that it shows to prove its existence.

Plus, if there was physical tangible proof that somehow materialized, who is to say if it was made manifest by a deity, or if it's a scientific phenomenon. I've had plenty of experiences that walk a thin line between what I could call spiritual and what I would call physical, but I can't really define it to a definite category due to my own (and humanity's) lack of perception into everything that goes on in the universe.

Do you believe in free will? Why or Why not?
I personally believe in free will, but it could very well just be because the deity or force in charge of my will (if any) is allowing me the wonderfully entertaining thought of free will. It could go either way, and in knowing that, I'm rather amused. :)

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[info]bike4fish
2007-08-20 07:15 pm UTC (link)
God? as a dogmatic monotheistic reality? Nope. A model that asserts that it is the only true model without any decent justification self-implodes.

Now there are gods, but those are human metaphors. Being a metaphor doesn't make something less real - most (all) of what we use as constructs to describe the world are metaphors. Heck, a rainbow isn't a "thing", but that doesn't make using the concept "rainbow" invalid (unless you start seriously trying to look for the pot of gold, or get really upset because you can't take the Bifrost bridge to Asgard.

If someone ever made a coherent definition of free will, I might be able to make a decision. But, considering the quantum nature of the universe and chaotic dynamics, "Fate" seems to be a non-starter. My favorite comment (as my first name is William) is: "Free Will? Hell, no. I charge!"

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(Anonymous)
2007-08-20 11:21 pm UTC (link)
1) Flying Spaghetti Monster — I was touched by his noodley appendage.
2) Free Willy — I think we all liked this movie as a kid, for some strange reason. It was a horribly movie though, so I guess the answer to your second question is "No."

—Dr. Jesus F. Christ III, Esq.

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(Anonymous)
2007-08-21 01:20 am UTC (link)
blogosaur says!

question 1: no.
question 2: yes.

Yay!! Further discussion happens over cold beverages.

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[info]egwenesvg
2007-08-21 04:04 am UTC (link)
Do I believe in God. An intriguing question I'm not sure I can adequately answer, so if any clarification is needed, we can discuss it at another time.

I consider myself agnostic. I think there is *something* out there but I hesitate to call it God. I hesitate to call it Gods, Goddess, Goddesses, etc.

Whatever it is out there, I don't think people can understand through religion. I'm not sure we're even supposed to understand it.

I actually find it amusing because I've never seen anything to convince me that any religion has it right... and yet, science I think can only prove our physical world, not the innate force I think is behind it.

---

As for free will... That I'll have to consider a while longer before I respond.

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[info]killercanary
2007-08-23 05:01 am UTC (link)
Do you believe in God? Why or Why not?

eh, not really, no. i find the idea of god highly improbable. it's like santa claus for adults. do we honestly think there's some all-knowing/present/powerful dude on some other plane of existence watching and/or controlling everything? seems like a pretty silly idea to me. i might call myself an atheist, but i think it's far more accurate to say that i don't care if there's a god. ...but sometimes i try to strike up a conversation with god while i'm sitting on the toilet. dickhead never says anything.

or maybe there is a god and he gets his kicks by fucking with rednecks.

Do you believe in free will? Why or Why not?

yup. that's another question that i find silly that so many people spend so much time thinking about. like asking, "does the world really exist?" well it's right in fucking front of you, isn't it? which of your five senses is it currently failing to stimulate right now? none of them, eh? ...stupid metaphysics.

i know that some people argue that our personalities are programmed by our genes and our upbringing and that our actions are merely a consequence of that. that's like saying, "the sky's only blue because the air tends to reflect short wavelength visible light waves." well, sure, but it's still fucking blue. and the fact remains that i can feel myself making decisions all the damn time. not to mention that if you don't believe in free will, then you can't believe in responsibility, which i think is a detestable frame of mind.

i think humans are much more than protoplasm and reactionary electron firings. those ideas don't account for my sense of awareness and self. science has failed to give me a satisfactory explanation for sentience and consciousness, amongst other things, and i doubt it ever could. ...but i still think that saying, "i don't know, so there must be god," is a cop-out.

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[info]bassist
2007-08-23 05:06 am UTC (link)
Well, gee, steal another of my lines. God as Santa Claus was totally mine.

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[info]dancing_dentist
2007-08-25 05:33 am UTC (link)
God: Yes, I do, but I don't have pure proof. I only have suspcions based on 1) the beauty and amazingness of the world
2) how awesome and perfect science works :D

Free Will: I don't think there is or isn't. It is a concept that is irrelevant, not practical, and purely philosophical. We have brains that have evolved into being able to make decisions. However, regardless of how we acheived it, we are still able to make our own decisions that we are responsible for... what more do you want???

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[info]cloudsobscured
2007-08-25 07:09 pm UTC (link)
I do not believe in god because it's never made sense to me. At six years old when I was first put into Hebrew School I was shown a picture of The God in a white beard in a cloud and frowned. My mom told me Care Bears don't really exist in clouds, how can this man do it?
To me, God always seemed like something akin to The Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. You believe in it when you are young because you don't know better and people tell it to you so you believe it. At a certain point, you "grow out" of believing in these things. What happened that we never grew out of believing in god?

Free Will: Um, yes, of course. I do not believe in fate. I do always say that everything will work out for the best, but that's not because I think there's some invisible hand helping create my future, it's just a way to keep me going when things, or I, am down.

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Will says...
(Anonymous)
2007-08-25 08:30 pm UTC (link)
"Do you believe in God? Why or Why not?"

Not so much in God per se, as much as in the concept that all life has within it a piece of living spirit, and back when we were all a singularity we were all part of it, unified, and we all sort of miss that sense of unity we once had. So I think the craving to connect with God is real, and it sometimes guides us because we feel sentimental for it -- it gives rise to empathy and a range of other emotions and codes of conduct -- but it may be based in something more to do with physics than with a guy with a white beard.

Do you believe in free will? Why or Why not?

Yes. If we didn't have free will there'd be no need for us to think, and yet we developed the ability to think, because we found that thought (and intuition) led us to take actions that could change the course of our lives. If those courses were "destiny", we still took an active part in making that destiny happen. Things don't just fall into your lap. You have to express that you want them, you have to take action.

That's not to say that there may be other factors beyond free will! Many other factors may be at work, who knows. But free will is part of how we respond to all the factors.

-Will (housemate Will)

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